I saw the world rejoice on the news and internet. And of course, Facebook statuses galore with praises to God and celebratory tones.
And then what I knew would happen, happened. The "Super-Christians" (which as I've been defining that word for nearly thirteen years indicates one who has a one inch deep, three mile-wide Christianity) began to post things like "I can't celebrate the destruction of a soul" or "We shouldn't be happy a sinner is dead," bla bla bla.
You see, this is why I REALLY can't stand Super-Christians. There's such a tone of self-righteousness that's built on nothing but bumper stickers and Nooma videos and contemporary Christian songs. Their Jesus isn't the reigning, sovereign God or Roaring Lion of Judah or even the Lamb that was Slaughtered. Their Jesus is their bearded girlfriend. And it shows in the VBS-level practical Christianity that's long on secular logo-ripped off Christian t-shirts and short on, well...Bible.
Let me make it very clear. If you can't celebrate the distribution of divine justice...and how should I put this carefully? You stink. Really. I feel sorry for the weak, anemic, worthless faith you have.
Let me get this right. God goes to great lengths to consistently and loudly proclaim His proclivity for justice - both in this life and the life to come - and you're ashamed of His blood-thirsty, unquenchable desire for justice and seek to hide it. When He displays divine retribution, instead of praising Him for it, you sit quiet? You pray for justice (I hope) and when it's delivered you don't thank God for an answered prayer? What an ingrateful little punk you are! God has done something that His people should rightly dance in the streets to celebrate, and like a sour school-child and sore-loser little leaguer you sit out in the corner with your arms folded, pouting.
Get up, you spoiled brat, and praise the Lord!
There is a reason for this complete lack of understanding considering the purposes of God. If God intended, purposed, willed or decreed that the person should be an object of His mercy and God's sovereign desire was defeated then it would be sad when hell was the eventual dwelling place of their soul. After all, God's purpose was thwarted. God would be shaken down from His throne, no longer being a God who achieved His purposes. If God meant for Osama to go to Heaven, and instead Osama wound up in Hell, then it would be a reason to mourn.
But this is not the case. Just as Judas was born to betray Jesus and nothing would thwart God's purpose in His life to do so, Acts 1:25 clearly says that Judas "belongs" in Hell. Consider Pharoah: "For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, 'For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.' So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills."
Occasionally there comes one who was so obviously raised up by God for the purpose of demonstrating His justice by destroying them. When that happens, we praise.
Keep in mind we don't celebrate specifically that someone is in hell. We celebrate that God has distributed justice. And that is, regardless of what your bumper sticker says, a cause for praise. Admit it. Doesn't your Spirit feel the desire to praise? Come on. Be "spirit led." This might be the one time that tired cliche' applies.
You define God in an extremely confident way but you are not omniscient. I am not weak or anemic for loving a god who instructs us to turn the other cheek- who through example rises above a base desire for vengeance. He is a god who gave his son to save and not to punish us.
ReplyDeleteHe is more than we could ever define.
I don't need to be omniscient to have a basic understanding of the attributes of God. He has revealed Himself sufficiently in Scripture (what do you think the Scripture is for, exactly?). Although we personally turn the other cheek, God instituted governments to bring justice upon the wicked (Romans 13:1-7). Furthermore, although God tells us to avoid vengeance, He himself delights in vengeance and promises to bring vengeance (Romans 12:19). This is because He's a God of justice as much as love, so His justice (as this post points out) is a cause for celebration.
ReplyDeleteBut who are you to pass judgement and mock others about their beliefs? Not only are you sexist, describing a peaceful God as "a bearded girlfriend" but you have no tolerance of others. What example do you hope to set by accusing people of being spoilt little brats? Your are the problem "not the super- Christians" you describe.
ReplyDeleteIronically, it seems as though you're passing judgment on me for my beliefs. Hmmmmmmmmmmm.
ReplyDeleteA. Pay attention. I am not describing Jesus as a bearded girlfriend; my point is that there are those who do. Did you take your V8 this morning?
B. Why do you insist on calling God peaceful? Certainly He will create peace. By killing His enemies and sending them to hell (remember that whole flood thing where he killed an entire planet of men, women, and breast-feeding children?) Just saying. He's got more attributes other than ones you like.
Thank you for sharing your post. I too believe in a God of Divine judgment. Yes, there is a retributive nature to God, or more appropriately, a justice, & I believe it's done with solemnity, soberness and magnanimity. There's very few verses in the Bible about Him cracking open a 4 pack of bud and dancing around the room once He's smitten someone. However, when righteousness prevails and great threat is averted a sense of celebration isn't misplaced; especially when handled with solemnity and magnanimity and good grace. If there's everything God handles everything with - it's grace.
ReplyDeleteFirstly, you're extremely patronizing "Pay attention. Secondly I understood the comment about the bearded girlfriend, you're clarification quite obviously does not make it less sexist. Surely you don't need me to explain why?!
ReplyDeleteIn addition I have never tried to limit what God is, I would never try and claim to define him as you do.
If you want people to take on your message you should try and be nicer. My main reason for responding to your original post is that it seemed so arrogant and un-Christian towards people who share your core beliefs.
Stop hating on people. Just saying.
The bearded girlfriend comment is not sexist. Lovey-dovey, VBS-educated Super-Christians sing romantic songs to Jesus like He is a woman, not the masculine God that He is. God is masculine, not a chick.
ReplyDeleteFurthermore, God has revealed Himself in the Scripture. He can be defined and known by His attributes as presented in the Scripture. The Scriptures clearly define. Sue me for actually knowing the Bible.
I've notice than when someone is right and an opposing view cannot be presented with Biblical evidence, then Plan B is to call them arrogant. For a post-modern mind, to be right is to be arrogant.
I have not written anything unChristian. You simply take exception with boldness - ironically, boldness defended by the Holy Text.
How can you not know what sexism is? the "lovey-dovey, romantic" stereotyping of women is sexist. "God is masculine, not a chick" What is a chick? Also God is neither male nor female.
ReplyDeleteIn addition I don't take exception with boldness, i take exception with unnecessarily bullyboy tactics. "Spoilt brat", "anemic" all the rest of the offensive stuff you said just detracts from the point you were making.
What kind of guidance do you think you're giving with a statement like this "I feel sorry for the weak, anemic, worthless faith you have." Way to go on doing God's worth by telling believers they're worthless.
I shouldn't have started this, I think I over estimated you.
God is neither male nor female? Are you serious? That's laughable.
ReplyDeleteSinners are worthless. Worthless, worthless, worthless. Totally depraved. They've turned away from God. Their mouths are an open grave. They've all become worthless. There is nothing good in them. They have no righteousness.
Worth is only given to someone as it is imputed to them from Christ upon faith and regeneration. This is the Gospel.
This comment made me laugh: "If you want people to take on your message you should try and be nicer."
ReplyDeleteYeah, that's what the world needs today-- more nice, easy-to-believe, sugar-coated, takes-no-effort-on-my-part faith. Sounds eerily similar to the false teachings that Oprah preaches from her pulpit every day. Unfortunately, there are a lot of really "nice" people or people who were sucked in by "nice messages" that are burning in Hell as we speak, and more headed to join them.
Jordan- God is not human. God is God. Humans are limited beings made in the likeness of the creator. Full stop.
ReplyDeleteMelissa I assume you were being sarcastic when you said it made you laugh? I've noticed a pattern in the rest of Jordan's work that you seem to be imitating- you mock people to make you're point.
Jordan I'm amazed that even you say that people who don't believe in celebrating Osama's death in the way you want them to are sinners and worthless. .
Melissa- Faith isn't easy but common decency is. All I ask is that when he talks about the word of God he tries to avoid the hateful language. You both talk about hell and judgement but that's not what you should be focusing on. Stop worrying about where other people are going- we can never know that- only God Can.
We can only control how we behave to one another, I know you've mentioned the old testament but perhaps you should try reading the sermon on the mount.
I truly believe the world does need more nice people. More people to behave as Jesus told us to. I don't wish you any ill but I'm sure you're pretty angry at me now. May God be with you and give you strength to see beyond that.
Once again, God is not female. He is most certainly male. IE "Heavenly Father," or "God made man in His image" or "Jesus was circumcized on the eighth day" or the gabizillion times he's attributed the male gender. Not difficult. God is masculine in all of His ways.
ReplyDeleteSecondly, I never said people who don't celebrate Osama's death are sinners or worthless (it's a good thing the evidence is right above these comments in the body of the post).
Third, you are apostate (have you read the Bible?) when you say not to focus on hell and judgment. Uh, yeah...God kind of focuses in that book He gave us to know what to believe...I think it's called, uh....oh yeah. "The Bible." By the way the whole "don't worry about where people are going" thing is pretty heretical,too.
Are you a Christian, or do you just masquerade as one?
I said this....
ReplyDeleteWhat kind of guidance do you think you're giving with a statement like this "I feel sorry for the weak, anemic, worthless faith you have." Way to go on doing God's worth by telling believers they're worthless.
And you responded by saying
Sinners are worthless. Worthless, worthless, worthless. Totally depraved. They've turned away from God. Their mouths are an open grave. They've all become worthless. There is nothing good in them. They have no righteousness
Then I was shocked and said this
Jordan I'm amazed that even you say that people who don't believe in celebrating Osama's death in the way you want them to are sinners and worthless.
And you then contradicted yourself by saying this- Secondly, I never said people who don't celebrate Osama's death are sinners or worthless (it's a good thing the evidence is right above these comments in the body of the post).
Who were you talking about when you had your rant about sinners?
Finally how dare you question my faith? You don't know me. All I am saying is that your post was horrible and hateful and the language you used totally took away from the point you were making about the glory of God. I just looked at your other stuff and clearly the only way you can find to teach is to put down other Christians. I'm not a Christian, Super-Christians aren't Christian, Catholics aren't Christian and the list goes on.
Judgement is not your job, it is Gods.
May God and peace be with you.
Wow you're an incredibly hateful person, you entitled a post "Why Are Calvinists Such Jerks?", you should really read the sermon on the mount...
ReplyDeleteI think this passage is particularly important for you as a teacher. Especially the line "And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others?"
ReplyDelete“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[i] and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
Let's go through this again. I said that at no time did I say people who don't celebrate Osama's death are worthless or sinners. However, I DID SAY that SINNERS are WORTHLESS. But don't take it from me, take it from God (Romans 3) because our worth is only derived from Christ. Not rocket science.
ReplyDeleteI'm questioning your faith using spiritual discernment. You seem highly ignorant of the Scripture. Notice I did not judge your faith, I questioned it. And that's perfectly acceptable. I question it because you seem to not understand the attributes of God, nor do you seem concerned with an adequate representation of said attributes, foundational to the Gospel. You seem more interested in maintaining some post-modern (feminine) notion of kindness (by your definition and not God's). And to add hypocrisy to the mix, use words like "sexist, hateful, patronizing" which I'm perfectly fine with, but I don't think it meshes with the messed up view of a feminine, limp-wristed Jesus you seem to have.
Wow ok I'm not coming back here. You're a sexist hateful person and it's a real shame other people will see that you write and think it represents Christ. All I ask is that you stop using words like "jerk" "spoiled brat" the list goes on. Try and be a bit more intelligent with your criticisms, even if you're sexism and prejudice limits you. Again please just have one read through of the sermon on the mount.
ReplyDeleteI would ask that you read the Bible once. Also, just because I feel like saying it one more time, God's not a chick.
ReplyDeleteYou said it one more time because you have a massive ego.
ReplyDeleteRule #1: When utterly defeated in an argument because your position can't be defended Biblically, resort to ad hominem attacks and call your opponent "arrogant," "prideful," or "egotistical."
ReplyDeletePS God's not a chick.
If you're not arrogant, why do you keep repeating that? You've made you're point. There is no need to keep saying it, unless of course you're trying to be funny? You're "P.S" Is just childish and not the kind of behaviour I would expect from a pastor.
ReplyDeleteWhat you haven't addressed yet are my two main criticisms 1) the unnecessary name calling and 2) the fact that I have highlighted a very important part of the new testament in which we are clearly instructed to be peaceful and loving- even towards our enemies. You may call these attributes feminine but they are the words of Christ.
Love they neighbour. I do not fear your persecution, I only hope that before dismissing this comment and putting me down you consider it. If I was in a position of leadership and authority like you are I would want to be criticised and humbled. You may disagree with me but you should have the common decency to consider what I have said instead of rashly responding with another criticism of me.
The righteous will be glad when they are avenged,
ReplyDeletewhen they dip their feet in the blood of the wicked.
Then people will say,
“Surely the righteous still are rewarded;
surely there is a God who judges the earth.” (Psalm 58).
The only name called, dead madam, is "spoiled brat"to refer to people who would pray for justice and then refuse to glorify God when He answers their prayers. Why? Because spoiled brats are ungrateful.
In terms of what behavior you expect from a pastor, judging based off of your limited theological understanding, I doubt you've a good frame of reference to judge what a pastor should or should not be.
I'm no Joyce Meyer, that's for sure.
No that is not all that you said you also said this
ReplyDelete"If you can't celebrate the distribution of divine justice...and how should I put this carefully? You stink. Really. I feel sorry for the weak, anemic, worthless faith you have."
And why wont you respond to the sermon on the mount. Do you think it is unimportant? All I amm asking is for your oppinion on it. Instead of attacking me and saying I have no reference point for what a pastor should be, why can't you simply respond to the criticisms I am making.
In case you missed it last time this is is the passage that I am using to suggest that there are elements to God that you disregard by characterising them as female.
“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[i] and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
I don't know what you mean by dead Madam,unless you mean dear madame? Perhaps it's because you assume I am female because I called you sexist. So you're putting me down again by suggesting I'm a madame and have some how misbehaved.
ReplyDeleteI am actually male, not that that is at all relevant so perhaps I should not stoop so low as to clarify that point. Perhaps you will now attack me on those grounds too. I am not man enough for you I assume.
And I assume you chose Joyce Meyer because she's female. And you say you aren't sexist?
ReplyDeleteWhat about the sermon on the mount? Do you realize that all of Scripture is just as inspired and authoritative as every other piece of Scripture. I beg you to find a Biblical church (one where a man preaches, for starters) so you can learn these basic hermeneutical aids to understanding the Bible. Blessed are the peace-makers. Peace is made. It's made often through force and through killing. Romans 12 (just as inspired as the Matthew) says it's the government's job to bring vengeance upon those who do evil.
ReplyDeleteAlso, you can dish it out but then play the victim when it's returned to you. For example you say, "you're not acting like a pastor" then I say "I doubt you have a frame of reference," and then you play victim "quit attacking me."
It stinks when you can't make Scripture go away, huh?
I would highly doubt you're male. I chose Joyce Meyer because she is a heretic. Oh, and also because she's a woman. You know, that whole "God's Word forbids women clergy" thing.
ReplyDeleteYou doubt that I'm male? I am Christian (which you also doubt,no for your information I am not "masquerading") and I am here to criticise something that i feel is wrong in your writing. I would never stoop so low as to lie about my sex. But I think you doubt I am male because I reject sexism.
ReplyDeleteYou can attack me all you want but it is your own words and actions that you should be considering. Not because I can dish out but can't take it but because you are the teacher. I am in no position of authority but you are.
I recognize that you refuse to even consider criticism and that is a shame for those who follow you. You still haven't responded to the name calling or the important messages behind the sermon on the mount. You chose quote another peace fo scripture. It is of course all important but you refuse to acknowledg the point I am making. That in that passage there is clear evidence for the type of God that is "limp- wristed" and feminine to use your words.